DC Warrior, I wish you could have seen what Jason had posted in a couple of his threads below. He accused Christian fundamentalists like me of being responsible for terrorism in the world. He said I was spewing lies twice. He called me and people like me ignorant. Only after I pointed out that he was both wrong and bigoted in these opinions did he delete those portions of his threads, and now he comes out with this post, and claims he never posted anything disparaging. That said, let me make clear my positions to you.

"the comfiscation of farmland - wha? Are you talking about the wetlands protection? Remember, both liberals and conservatives from farm states alike back farm protection. you throw this out as tho it's self-evident, but its not."

Yes I am talking about Wetlands protection, as well as the misguided use of the endangered species act. While Farm protection may be supported by both sides, the comfiscation of farmland was not to my knowledge supported by conservatives. And in fact, almost all of the comfiscation I am referring to has been done so by executive order.

"the distruction of whole industries in this nation, and the jobs that go with them. You mean like NAFTA, a conservative darling? Or the general march of progress? I disagree with the liberals and working-class conservatives on the need and purpose of protectionism - but to blame destruction of industries on "liberals" is wishful thinking."

Tell that to the many communities in the northwest whose industries (logging and farming) have been either shutdown completely, severly restricted, or made so expensive to operate that they simply can't anymore. The cases of this are numerous. Hundreds of thousands of jobs have been lost. Many cases of entire communities in the northwest bacically going on welfare, because logging mills were forced to shut down because of new environmental regulations. Farmers in Oregon I believe it is, who can no longer use water from a lake they have used for years, unless its above a certain level. And the level that is used as a standard has only been reached once in the last 30 years, I believe (not sure of the exact # of years, it could be more). Another farmer in California can no longer farm his land because they found the nest of a kangaroo rat on his property. Not the rat mind you, just the nest. He had just bought the farm less than 5 years beforehand. The result in this one, he cannot farm his land, he cannot build on his land, the property values have dropped to less than half what he owes, and the government wanted to take it from him, without compensating him at all. Last I heard he was still fighting it in court.

Personally, I disagree with NAFTA also. It only makes good business sense to move your plants to places with lower wages. Not everyone is cut out to go to college, so I see this as a problem too.

What I am trying to point out is, the effects of environmental laws as they are now have hurt a very large number of people in this country economically, and this has largely been the liberal view of environmental protection. It has hurt farming, logging, mining, and the energy industries. And this effects every other industy in the country. Construction, any business that uses electricity, trucking, you name it. It has also made us more dependent on foreign sources, which effects our foreign policy in adverse ways. I am looking at the big picture here. Would we care nearly so much about the middle east, if it weren't for the fact that we import a large amount of oil? I do not favor abandoning environmental protection, but it needs to be far more balanced and reasonable.

"So of all the things you blame liberals on, the only one that's really a criticism of any liberals is tree spiking, and that's like blaming all of Christendom for David Duke."

Once again, I wish you could have read what Jason posted. You once thought I was reasonable, even though you didn't agree with my politcal views. Let me say that what Jason posted and then deleted was just as offensive to me as being associated with David Duke or the KKK would be. And that doesn't include the effect of being called ignorant, or a liar.